1.19 , Birds don't work.

Celegorm · 03-26-2008

Well the birds NEVER do any dmg to planes. I even added a replay , its 8 mins total and just a test to see if birds work or not.

Serenity · 03-27-2008

They work, they are just hard as hell to aim, you have to tell them to explode at where the shadow of the plane is not where the plane is.

TheRussianLord · 03-27-2008

The pathing of the planes is somewhat strange. As a result you have to detonate near the planes not on the planes. They do small aoe. Best results are to grab like 12-24 of them and detonate them all near the airplane mass.

King Stubby · 03-28-2008

So I'm guessing that the way birds damage planes is that when they detonate, their carcass-parts fly into the jet thing and clog it, cover the windshield, or are so acidic they eat through metal!

Pogo · 03-28-2008

Birds also seem to explode on each other, because of that small aoe, blowing each other up for no damage to the target, if you mass enough... Maybe put autocasting on to start with, and we can just put a rally point at where we want them. Maybe a better way for them to damage planes could be used, such as it being an active ability, that always hits, but for a smaller than current damage, that kills the unit(s) using it. Anyone ever played Battleships? I'm thinking of the Capsize ability, which makes your ship explode, while doing a frost nova-esque damage (Certain amount to the main target, certain amount in an aoe). Because I have to use a multitude of birds just to hit one target, sending them in one at a time, due to their ability to kill each other when en masse.

TheRussianLord · 03-29-2008

Hmm well I've had a pretty satisfactory moment of annihilating a huge airforce with birds in a game. But I notice that it is rather hard to use them well. Pogo do you know how to make the capsize ability from battleships?

Pogo · 03-29-2008

Not a clue. xD

I could probably figure it out though, if I had a day to learn some JASS spell coding... Time to look up WC3Campaigns and the Hive again.

My guess is that it does a frost nova esque spell on the target (Certain amount to the main target, and a smaller amount to everything around it), then suicides the unit that uses it. If I couldn't figure out how to do that directly, I could probably find a work around.

King Stubby · 03-29-2008

You know what else would work?

Kaboom! off of goblin sappers, which is what Capsize is based off of.

Duh.

Pogo · 03-30-2008

Nope... Thats what the current one for birds is based off of, and is what is killing the other birds around it. Didn't you see the icon on the birds? >_>"

TheRussianLord · 03-30-2008

Pogo is right, I used the Kaboom! ability as the basis, reduced AoE and dmg, and made it target air only. Made birds could be another type of unit so that it won't affect each other.

Serenity · 03-30-2008

You could also make birds immune to the damage type that the ability is most likely.

Pogo · 03-31-2008

Capsize isn't based off kaboom either, theres too many effects involved. I tried to recreate it, now its time to take a peek at the triggers used for it... I made a test map with four different ideas as to how to go about it, and some of them actually worked to some extent...

Pogo · 03-31-2008

Aha, found it. Double post, yes, but I figured it out. Capsize uses the Orc base ability Unstable Concoction, which causes the unit to go into a suicide plunge at the target unit, in this case, modified to water based units. Its perfect, unless the target happens to be moving pretty fast, in which case the unit doesn't die. This spell can be used with a minimal amount of modification, mostly damage amounts, because it is already an air unit to air unit based spell, and causes x amount to the main target, and x amount to x area around it, where x can be specified.

TheRussianLord · 03-31-2008

Unstable concotion? I'll experiment around with it. Thank you. It sounds like just what we need.

Pogo · 04-03-2008

Does it work? As it was, it would have been too powerful (600 damage to the first unit, 250 in a 250 aoe) but if toned down a bit, it would have been a more reliable way to take out air units without blowing up your own.

Celegorm · 04-05-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheRussianLord

Pogo is right, I used the Kaboom! ability as the basis, reduced AoE and dmg, and made it target air only. Made birds could be another type of unit so that it won't affect each other.

Thats exactly the problem. If a air fleet is together the birda AoE dameges the ones near the main target but if there are only 2 planes it become Very hard to destroy them since they can always fly away.

Pogo · 04-05-2008

Plus large groups of birds destroy themselves as they try to all converge on a target at once...

TheRussianLord · 04-06-2008

I'm working things out right now. I'm probably going to make birds ethereal in type and make AA weapons be able to target ethereal.

03-27-2008	#2
Serenity Join Date: May 2007 Location: Holy Terra Posts: 501	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. They work, they are just hard as hell to aim, you have to tell them to explode at where the shadow of the plane is not where the plane is.

03-27-2008	#3
TheRussianLord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,002	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. The pathing of the planes is somewhat strange. As a result you have to detonate near the planes not on the planes. They do small aoe. Best results are to grab like 12-24 of them and detonate them all near the airplane mass.

03-28-2008	#4
King Stubby Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Underground Posts: 5,865	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. So I'm guessing that the way birds damage planes is that when they detonate, their carcass-parts fly into the jet thing and clog it, cover the windshield, or are so acidic they eat through metal! And now, directly from chip's signature...

03-28-2008	#5
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Birds also seem to explode on each other, because of that small aoe, blowing each other up for no damage to the target, if you mass enough... Maybe put autocasting on to start with, and we can just put a rally point at where we want them. Maybe a better way for them to damage planes could be used, such as it being an active ability, that always hits, but for a smaller than current damage, that kills the unit(s) using it. Anyone ever played Battleships? I'm thinking of the Capsize ability, which makes your ship explode, while doing a frost nova-esque damage (Certain amount to the main target, certain amount in an aoe). Because I have to use a multitude of birds just to hit one target, sending them in one at a time, due to their ability to kill each other when en masse.

03-29-2008	#6
TheRussianLord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,002	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Hmm well I've had a pretty satisfactory moment of annihilating a huge airforce with birds in a game. But I notice that it is rather hard to use them well. Pogo do you know how to make the capsize ability from battleships?

03-29-2008	#7
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Not a clue. xD I could probably figure it out though, if I had a day to learn some JASS spell coding... Time to look up WC3Campaigns and the Hive again. My guess is that it does a frost nova esque spell on the target (Certain amount to the main target, and a smaller amount to everything around it), then suicides the unit that uses it. If I couldn't figure out how to do that directly, I could probably find a work around.

03-29-2008	#8
King Stubby Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Underground Posts: 5,865	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. You know what else would work? Kaboom! off of goblin sappers, which is what Capsize is based off of. Duh. And now, directly from chip's signature...

03-30-2008	#9
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Nope... Thats what the current one for birds is based off of, and is what is killing the other birds around it. Didn't you see the icon on the birds? >_>"

03-30-2008	#10
TheRussianLord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,002	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Pogo is right, I used the Kaboom! ability as the basis, reduced AoE and dmg, and made it target air only. Made birds could be another type of unit so that it won't affect each other.

03-30-2008	#11
Serenity Join Date: May 2007 Location: Holy Terra Posts: 501	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. You could also make birds immune to the damage type that the ability is most likely.

03-31-2008	#12
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Capsize isn't based off kaboom either, theres too many effects involved. I tried to recreate it, now its time to take a peek at the triggers used for it... I made a test map with four different ideas as to how to go about it, and some of them actually worked to some extent...

03-31-2008	#13
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Aha, found it. Double post, yes, but I figured it out. Capsize uses the Orc base ability Unstable Concoction, which causes the unit to go into a suicide plunge at the target unit, in this case, modified to water based units. Its perfect, unless the target happens to be moving pretty fast, in which case the unit doesn't die. This spell can be used with a minimal amount of modification, mostly damage amounts, because it is already an air unit to air unit based spell, and causes x amount to the main target, and x amount to x area around it, where x can be specified.

03-31-2008	#14
TheRussianLord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,002	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Unstable concotion? I'll experiment around with it. Thank you. It sounds like just what we need.

04-03-2008	#15
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Does it work? As it was, it would have been too powerful (600 damage to the first unit, 250 in a 250 aoe) but if toned down a bit, it would have been a more reliable way to take out air units without blowing up your own.

04-05-2008	#17
Pogo Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 159	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. Plus large groups of birds destroy themselves as they try to all converge on a target at once...

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04-06-2008	#18
TheRussianLord Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 1,002	Re: 1.19 , Birds don't work. I'm working things out right now. I'm probably going to make birds ethereal in type and make AA weapons be able to target ethereal.