Halakbalakbalak

MMk... Weve been back and forth over spitters for a LOOOONG TIME on the last page of the baord WWZ made a good point about them in a way I guess... Okay here goes...
What does a spitter do? well it spits infected saliva or blood at you... so it should mainly be an infector... because spit wont directly hurt you... it will jsut kinda .. infact you.. but to balence all that you see down there out... give it a normal melee attack and a minimum range...

Redo spitters..
Yes I said redo... why you ask? Because their spit isnt acid... it doesnt hurt us any more then it would hurt them... so we need to change the spitters to hit very low but give the poison an exstremly good effect... so that way after the spitters are dead nomadder what you do you cant cure the poisoned units and they either need to be dealth with or fins some palce to put them before they die form it and become a zombie... now this might pose problems... lets say someone surrounds you with ALOT of spitters and infants practicaly everything... deal with it.. heros should also be immune to the poison to balence out this .


The end
But before any of this is taken into acount or even if possible in a miracle incorporated into the game... we need to atleast test it a few times first...

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TheRussianLord

Interesting. After we finish up sorting out the game balance, with supply trucks and spies, this might be the next big thing. Redoing the HvZ combat system.

Halakbalakbalak

See, not everything I say is Bullshirt

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Nos-Feratu.

So, you've added the cure?

Halakbalakbalak

no inorder to make the zombievhuman combat system better... we need to add the actual effect of what the infection does... it always kills you... no stopping it.

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WWZ

I dun agree with that i prefer spitters as they are. Besides nos's ORIGINAL idea was that they spit acid. So in total i say nay to this idea mainly because spitters are finally balenced and i am not going through the whole rebalence again for that one unit.

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Halakbalakbalak

Who says you have to do it... your not the only person on bnet who can effin change stats or armour -.-

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WWZ

I still say no even if i have to do it or not. A spitter spitting acid was in the game since the first version and i am not gonna let you guys change it without a fight. I am completly agianst this one and i will not let it pass.

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Halakbalakbalak

*shoots you in the back of the head* Any more ****ing questions? ya i thought so!!!

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SilentShadow31

i think it would be a cool thing to try, but i don't think u should change the spitters to that. Maybe add another unit that does that. Spitters are very usefull in the beginning of the game. Say your zombies, and you have taken most of north africa, but turkey and russia mass machine gunners, doctors, and some gattlers. Since you don't have much gold, you can't build many very strong units. SO u mass regular zombies and spitters. The machines gunners and gattlers are busy killing the regular zombies, giving your spitters a chance to attack them and you win the battle. Now if the spitters only infect, they humans will probaly win and end up pushing, killing your north american cities. There guys then reanimate, but by then the humans have rebuilt, and you have lost all your cities.

So if you have spitters and another unit the infect it gives more room for tactics, but doesn't take anything from the game.

TheRussianLord

Actually if spitters turned someone zombie every shot they made, but did almost no damage, then they would be more powerful then they are now. As is they take 2-3 shots to kill an infantry. With medic support, this often means they can't do anything. Hiyousuck can you state actual reasons, game-wise, for which you're against.

Footmen_Legion

Theres a feeling that this change is not gonna turn out good.. even though I barely understand the massive grammar errors from the 1st post

So your saying when a spitter attacks you they infect - alright thats cool
But there is not cure - Getting a little lame there
Wheres the Drawback for the Spitter - !?!?!

I say give each soilder like umm a neddle injector with some medical thing to it ( I dont feel like making up a story ) which kills themselves but prevents them from turning to Z so theres the draw back to the spitters side of the conflict

Halakbalakbalak

You could give the humans the same skill that zombies have to kill themselves... it would make clearing your army out alot easier... also about the first psot beign messed up... well i wrote the 3rd part then the first then the 2nd then the 4th

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WWZ

Thats the reason those last two posts and game wise would be, Truly the spitter does not need a rebalence, a redo or anything, it is PERFECTLY fine as it is. If it does 1 hit inf, then yes it has no drawback, and if it doesn't and gets a delayed death type attack it would just ruin the fact zombs pop out when a zombie kills a person. In this format, a spitter dies infecting a unit, they get that unit, isolate it then when it dies no free zomb, you got only the gold. This idea is planning to crash and burn if it does go in, reason spitters are effective is that they kill from a range and do SIGNIFEcan't DAMAGE TO MELEE TYPE UNITS. THATS HALF THE REASON I SAY NO. Removing a spitter removes the ability of killing melee type human units(flame, swords,calv,riot,rioter,gen,demo). All those spec units are extremly vulnerable to a spitter and making its attack delayed, theres close to no chance of even being zombs since melee will only WTFPWN your army's, without a powerful anti-melee RANGED unit that the spitter currently occupies, most human army's will cut right through zombie army's and thresholds making the game(even X) completly one sided having humans with a higher advantage.

EDIT: i just keep thinking of human units only spits can defeat. Another unit is the navy in total. Its armor system was based in anti-melee zombs but not anti-infector or anti-spitter, and thus proves a point that the spitter is intwined with to many diffrent forms of stratedgies that just doing a simple change can change the game(not drastically) but in a form where humans have a greatly higher advantage as stated before.

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Halakbalakbalak

Your aware that there can always be two zombie ranged units... I mean we could replace them with maybee something like a flesh thrower or a rock thrower... or maybee even a zombie that jumps on you from like 20 feet away
also atm spitters are entirely useless against poeple wh have an idea of what their doing... for say... you me russian silent and many...many...mannnny.... others.

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WWZ

Two ranged units i do not mind, But removing or doing anything to the spitter is what i do not like. That unit has been to much trouble and to much BULLSH*T to be just removed later on. Due to that fact, I will not let so much hard work(mainly on dante's part though) to just be thrown into the trash giving into another idea to replace it. Also yes they are useful even agaisnt me i find spitters pain in the asses. VS navy they own, they are easy forms of taking out mg and half the humans spec units(especially melee) and can take out running armys if thier close enough.

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Halakbalakbalak

How about this...we just replace the infector with this new type of spitter... and giv ethe spitter 2 upgrades... to normal waterboudned spitter and into Infector(wich would be the new type of unit)

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Serenity

Don't change it
Spitters are actually useless later on I find
Trying to completely change how the unit works will not fix it
What I find makes them weak later on is auras
I had about 20 spitters 30 normal zs and they got the crap kicked out of them by sweedens cavelry+max level vampic aura
They were able to fully heal every attack
And + the range units behind them I could not get close enough to kill them
Spitters are good against vehicles
they are sort of like a zombie rocket launcher
I think they are fine.

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TheRussianLord

They are not the zombie rocket launcher. Rocket launchers are an ambush unit.

Serenity

they are an anti vehicular unit

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Halakbalakbalak

Not realy.. all zombie pwn vehicals -.-

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WWZ

Serenity spitters don't suck, humans just outnumbered and outgunned you. As well you are thinking spitters are only required in small amounts. NO. A spitter is in a form, zombie artillery. But you need a good mass of them. Not only that, thier not STAND ALONE units. You need more than 30 zombies to protect them. Spitters aren't meant to be the bulk of the army. The bulk is meant to be either rage,dogs, or regs or all 3. Then you get half or at least 1/4 the army in spits. Spitters don't have the health nor the power to be sent into combat alone. You also require microing to win with them. For your fight , it would have either been better to 1. kill the hero using spits by getting all 20 and targetting or 2. Mass target calv(all 20 on one unit) to kill them one by one. That would have been easier and much more damaging instead of just watching your spits die. THEY ARE USEFUL, just learn how to use them.

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TheRussianLord

The question at hand isn't their usefullness, but rather a reworking of the general combat system.

WWZ

Then why change it now when we can just overhaul it later? Changing it peice by peice will only make it awful. In fact changing it now will do nothing. All you will create is a unit that will be redone later. Leave it as it is NOW and change it when its redone WITH EVERYTHING ELSE. You can't change something first then do everything else. ESPECIALLY for a zombie unit, you first need to have the humans redone. Mainly because what can be extremly powerful in current system could be extremly weak in next one. Doing it now will only make it have to be redone later. To do a combat system redo YOU NEED TO DO EVERY UNIT AT ONCE, NOT ONE AT A TIME. That will F*CK up the game and make the attempt to redo it harder. For example we redo spitter now, it is somehow extremly weak and crappy, when the system is redone half of bnet might already hate the unit pleading for a redo of it. You can't tackle something you think will be tough first unless you plan TO DO EVERYTHING ELSE after it.

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TheRussianLord

This discussion concerns purely changes that will be made later. I need a couple more versions to finish up the human combat system. Until it is done the zombies will be left alone. After it get finished, we can start looking at redoing spitters and other zombie units.