Serenity

I had an idea for a new unit, a mobile supply vehicles of some type, I think a good way for it to work would be give it more mana then most other vehicles and give it the ability to resupply other vehicles with mana via an ability that gives like 1 for 1 mana or 5 for 5, the main reason is the logistics get nasty when using artillery far from your base and having to run the artillery back to your base to restock or make a whole new supply depot.

Another idea I think would be cool would be a spy, to help encourage human wars with adding more options for tactics, give it like perm shadow meld and the ability to shadow sight other units to help keep track of enemy units

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SilentShadow31

i think it is a good idea, but i can see it being unbalanced because u could keep your army constantly resupplied by having a couple taking turn suppling while the other resupplies itself.

WWZ

well the mobile restocker can be done easily but it would only be able to restock a small bit of mana to artillery(like 35% of their true mana or less) and it can't really be abused if we give it low health and low armor. Though to counteract that, it would have to be fast as well with no attack. The mana regen can be created with an undead spell the destroyers use to regen mana for thier own mana so its pretty simple in tasks of editing and balancing :P

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TheRussianLord

New member. Welcome to the forums.

The idea seems valid enough, though to be honest doesn't seem vital. Supply depots build rather quickly, and aren't particularly expensive. As for the spy, I have been thinking about a special ops unit for some time. Maybe not for 1.17B, but both will probably go into 1.18.

SilentShadow31

the reason i say the resupplies truck can be unbalanced is because even if they r weak, if u a couple going back in forth you could constanly be resupplies your guys and never run out. And especially if they r fast, when facing zombies, the zombies would have trouble dealing with that, especially noob or moderate skilled zombies.

And with the spy, one of the advantages of zombies is sneaking around to kill a town and start making an army, and is the humans put out a couple spies they can stop that and the zombies can do anything about that.

But if there was a limit to 1 spy per nation and 2-3 resupplies trucks per nation then maybe it could work.

WWZ

-_- not really. Everything has its weaknesses and strenghts. Also who would make 50 resupply trucks eating up their food just to give artillery infinite ammo. Its possible yes, but probable no.Besides massing regen units normally messes up a units mana regen leaving it like 1 point less. We never put limits on carriers cuz of that and i barely see people ever make more than 3. Also russian the truck is meant to be like frontlines resupply. like lets say zombs take out turkey and your holding them off in mountains with artillery and its a neverending swarm and you dun have the resources or time to make a munitions depot and in answer to that we get a supply truck to run down and resupply your artillery which is running low. Its meant to be like this kinda (in my view):

Russia falls and humans holding out in the polish river. Theres munitions depot in the river for artillery but germany and france start pushing zombs back which a force of 6 self propelled howizters(in total 12 6 for france 6 for germ) and a reguler army of gats+meds+inf+mg's. They push all the way till they get to moscow then zombs start raining out from the south and the bridges. Mainly rage dogs and spits. Humans can't withdraw cuz that would feed zombs and only thing holding zombs back are the arty strikes. Battle lasts a while till arty starts to run low. Then come in the supply trucks sent by poland and yugoslavia. The humans hold out long enough for Uk airdrops 24 carbines and the italian army arrives.

There thats a good example

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SilentShadow31

i guess yes, if they cost enough food they might not be rigged, depending on their cost and speed. And btw, good example .
Also what do u think of the spy idea then?

WWZ

i'm not really one that messes with human versus human ask russian for that :P. I specialize in human vs zombs XD. Though in me opinion not bad idea, ground version of awacs, though less chances of your valuable awacs to get shot down. But in truth i would prefer spec ops soldiers instead of spies. They work in the same concept except deadlier and they come with free c4's.

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Halakbalakbalak

Actualy I know silent from bnet

Also... im in support of this idea... iv elong wanted a mobile suply for my arttilery...

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TheRussianLord

The special ops would be an infantry unit with shadowmeld. It would cost probably around 100 gold, have the same attack as german snipers, and also have a mana-based timed explosive, or something of the sort. It would also have wind walk, which would have no mana cost, but a long cooldown.

Serenity

Well the thing that you are also forgetting is that the supply trucks must be microed and an enemy could use planes or water bound zombies to go around the front and kill the supply lines

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SilentShadow31

You are right serenity. Btw when i am talking about these problems with the spies and supply trucks they are for human vs zombie wars. I think it depends on the cost and the bounty given. If the cost is low and bounty low then the humans would suffer to much and could just build more. But if the cost is high and the bounty high then i think it would be more worth the trouble killing them and maybe then they would work.

Russians' special ops infantry also sounds good. It doesn't seem over powered, and i can see how it can be used effectivly. I was just wondering if they are made if spies are alot to be made. If there arn't going to be any spies will anything have true sight?

Halakbalakbalak

EHEM.....

Just for the record... there is one thing that I still see as needing change in wwz... that fact that we have slided so FAR away from the origanal storyline that I dont even see it as being the same game now... Yugoslavia as a communist nation wasnt around in 2008 and by NO means is it a regoinal power in almost any way. The M1 Abrams as a bleeding normal tank... srry to say but thats jsut completely stupid... why would one of the priciest tanks in the world be able to be produced in mass by a poor country like Yugoslavia? I mean for god sake its common sense... For one here are the stats for the Abrams tank Length 32.04 ft (9.77 m)
Width 12 ft (3.7 m)

thats all im adding to this for now -.- cya.
Height 7.79 ft (2.37 m) 8.0 ft (2.44 m)
Top speed 45 mph (72 km/h) 41.5 mph (67 km/h) 42 mph (68 km/h)
Range 310 mi (498 km) 288 mi (465 km) 243 mi (391 km)
Weight 61.4 short tons (55.7 tonnes) 62.8 short tons (57.0 tonnes) 67.6 short tons (61.3 tonnes) 68.4 short tons (62.1 tonnes) 69.5 short tons (63.0 tonnes)
Main armament 105 mm M68 rifled 120 mm M256 smoothbore
Crew 4 (commander, gunner, loader, driver)

Also Ive noticed that most of the things in wwz are SOVIET BASED units... the artillery is soviet.. msot of the air is soviet... the efin apc is soviet now... and the best tank in the game wich technicaly has not been released yet(the paly doesnt coutn as a tank) outdoes the worlds most expensive high tech tank.

Quote"Recent information seems to suggest that the Black Eagle program has been halted due to the acceptance of the T-90 into the Russian military."
To add on to all of this an engine hasnt even been decided for the bleeding thing.
but there are two choices so far. and neither has seems powerfull enoufe

also there are 2 systems for gun armaments for the BE. but im only posting one of them just to go on ahead with it.
Drozd ("thrush" in Russian) is an active protection system developed in the Soviet Union, designed for increasing tanks' protection against anti-tank missiles and RPGs. It is considered the world's first operational active protection system, created in 1977–78 by A. Shipunov's KBP design bureau as Kompleks 1030M-01.

Drozd uses 24.5 GHz Doppler radar to detect incoming rounds travelling between 70 and 700 m/s (to avoid engaging small arms or other faster projectiles). Its computer determines when to fire a 107 mm projectile. When the incoming round is at 7 m range — the Drozd fragmentation warhead detonates, spreading 3-gram slugs to destroy the incoming round. The Drozd system was relatively complex, requiring a radar array and two launch tubes on each side of the tank turret, and a large electronics package on turret rear.

One of Drozd's shortcomings was that it was only able to protect a 60 degree arc around the forward part of the turret. Each unit cost around $30,000, was 80-percent successful against incoming RPGs in Afghanistan, but proved to provide too high of a collateral damage issue to surrounding troops that were dismounted from their armored vehicles.

The project was abandoned by the Army, but completed by the Soviet Naval Infantry to increase protection for about 250 older T-55 tanks in 1981–82 (newer T-72s were problematic on landing craft, due to size and weight, and $170 million Drozd development was much cheaper than a new tank design). Tanks were upgraded to T-55M standard and equipped with Drozd at the tank rebuilding plant in Lviv, Ukraine, and kept in war stores for secrecy. The rebuilt tanks were designated T-55AD, or T-55AD1 if they had the newer V-46 engine. Drozd APS was later replaced by the simpler Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armour.

Drozd was exported in small numbers to China and to an undisclosed Middle-Eastern client. It was subsequently discontinued. The Drozd-2 system was developed to give a 120-degree protection arc with more projectile launchers. It was intended to be installed on the T-80U main battle tank. A more sophisticated all-round active protection system is the Arena Active Protection System.

Here are the stats for the REAL russian mbt the T-90 -.-
Armor Classified
Primary
armament 125 mm smoothbore gun with ATGM capability; mainly 9M119 Svir
Secondary
armament 7.62 mm coaxial machine gun, 12.7 mm anti-aircraft machine gun
Engine 12-cyl. diesel
1,000 hp (750 kW)
Power/weight 22 hp/tonne
Suspension torsion bar
Operational
range 550 km with external tanks[1]
Speed 60 km/h[2]


But!! the thing is that russia feild less then 1000 of these tanks and india actualy has more of them... to add unto this.

and to add unto this here is a list of the post-soviet tanks(this list is less then a year old i mind you)

T-84 (Ukraine)
T-90 (Russia)
Black Eagle (Russia, in development)
T-95 (Russia, rumoured)

heres an international view on the BE
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just to add on heres a usefull one on the russian air force.
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At this point we might as well jsut add on the T-27 Tankette(basicaly a tnak with no cannon and jsut a machine gun)

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TheRussianLord

''The Chiorny Oriol has the same overall dimensions as the T-80U does, nevertheless it has a lower silhouette which makes it less distinctive on the terrain. The experts believe that in terms of combination of the basic charac-teristics such as maneuverability, fire power, armour piercing capability and protection this MBT will surpass the Western MBTs such as M1A2 Abrams, Leclerk and Leopard-2 by a factor of 1.5-1.7.''

A quote out of the article you found Halak. As for the m1 being used as a standard tank, the reasons are fairly easy to understand. There is a high quality model available for it. I would love to use the German Leopard 2A6E instead, which has been exported to a number of other countries, making it a very common tank in Europe. The problem is that there are no models of it.

The state of the Russian Airforce article is ridiculous. It lists the outdated Su-17 as being on par with the F-16. To be honest I seriously doubt the Russian airforce has any Fitters left in service. They were the equivalent of Mig-21 Fishbeds, which have been removed from service a long time ago. It also lists the Su-27, Su-35 and Mig-31 as all being F-15 equivalents. This is completely wrong. The Su-27 is indeed the peer air superiority fighter of the F-15. The Su-35 is actually a 5th generation aircraft that, by WVR combat is superior to the Raptor. Only due to lack of stealth, it loses to the F-22 in BVR. The Mig-31 is a high-altitude interceptor meant for taking down enemy bombers, and sattelites, whose trademark is remarkable speed (fastest military aircraft in the world) and multi-phase radar.

In regards to Yugoslavia, what other Balkan nation would you have us use?

EDIT: Wtf. I just reread what you wrote. The Drozd and ARENA are not armaments. They're Active Protection Systems (APS). Defense systems meant for stopping ATGMs from hitting the tank. The armament for the BE is a 125 mm 2A46M-series gun.

And as for soviet weapons, they do happen to be some of the most common in the world.

Ok so aircraft we have the F16 and F22 and Ch-47 all american. We have AWACS which doesn't specify if it's the US E# or the Soviet An-50. We have 2 soviet planes, Mig-29 and Mig-31. 3vs2 in favor of western weapons. Artillery we have the M270 MLRS which is American and the Nona is a Soviet self prop artillery. Yes both of the SAMs in the game are Soviet, because American SAMs are very rare, especially tac-SAMs like the Tunguska. The Bradley stinger vehicles have only begun entering the U.S. army recently. Among other vehicles we have the flame tank, generic, the M1A2, American, and the BTR-90, Soviet, (the BMP-3 was too just fyi). Sounds fairly even.

Serenity

Alright well
if you want to make it close to the book and to realism a lot would change
For one all ammo for troops would need to be made or bought
You would need industry and gold for troops to fight
You would need to remake every vehical in the game to take fuel and have limmits on how much you can get
Then after all that you would need to deal with the fact that there is one zombie type that can walk through water even if it is slow, it would start able to walk through water, it would only die to head shots.
You would need to have an assinine ammount of buildings
You would need to change a tank factory as a general building as a new one for each nation to goto their countries actual uses and would need to slow production a lot
Then every troop and vehical would need ammo
Lets say a standard infantry man carries 100 rounds
100 shots out of ammo no resupply you are screwed
I think making it close to realism would make it a completely different game
I like seeing the units that are in it
BTW russian I doubt most people can tell the difference between models :P
But that does not matter
I mean realisticly
You would need to take into account morale
Supply lines
Manufactureing
Food
Supply and demand
Infected people who have not turned yet
You would need to change the zombies poison to be doom and have a zombie come out when they die as well
And that would mean one hit your infantry is dead
I like the way it is
I think it works well
I think making it by the book would ruin the unique feel of it and just make it a tedious mess for playing humans since zombies do not have those problems.
So pretty much
10 diffrent construction builders if not more
Specific units for each nation
And all the rebalanceing to make them close to their counterparts but also balanced
I think it is fine the way it is.

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Halakbalakbalak

The russian air force article is somethiong i didnt even read i just added it... but for the rest of the thing i proved my point mor ethen usual.. but i might be able to find someone who can make a Leopold skin.

and the drozt guess what
IT WAS A SEPERATE ****ING THING FROM THE SENTENCE BEFORE IT.
oh waite... danmit i did forget to put in the armaments >.<

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WWZ

Most people in bnet are that dumb yes. Halak making it realistic would only make the game 10x harder for humans 50x more anti-noob and would require so much work to finish.(for me it would). Besides no one TRULY CARES for realism except the people who come on the forums,the designers and the people who love the game to that extent. But if you choose ONE random player from bnet they would say "nope i dun care bout realism" Halak

BALANCE>REALISM
THINGS AT HAND>REALISM
THE PROBABILITY AND CHANCE OF SUCCESS>REALISM

Russian's trying his best to be realistic but we can't make it 100% equal to RL, Also the book is set in a diff timeline and its in 06 not 08. for all we know yugo's could have become dominant in greece. The book never spoke about them. Also zombie realism....imma not get into a big talk about that but i dun want 10k health zombs running around which are slow and would honestly BORE the player out of his mind due to the fact that he can only make 1 unit instead of the nice diversity we have now. Thats all i got to say for now.

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Halakbalakbalak

zombie realisnm as ive said before I DONT CARE
but realisnm within humans is somethign that i actualy want... and that doesnt mean jus tbecause we have the model we can add the unit.

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WWZ

Halak for 1. your the only one with the problem of realism 2. its majority vote, everyone likes realism but not to your extent, plus its 1 tank whats that got to do with anything? Also so what if Abrams is main tank, america figured zombie threat was dangerous and exported tanks to european nations. -_- in any way it comes out, your taking this to far.....

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SilentShadow31

this discution has really straid from the topic

TheRussianLord

That's ok. Halak heres the thing. You get someone to put in a Leo 2 skin and I'll use it instead of the M1. Then we can make the pally an M1 skin and name, and add the M109 paladin as an elite arty piece.

Halakbalakbalak

As hys said most of the bnet population is retarded... so WE DONT NEED TO USE THE ACTUAL SKIN FOR THE LEOPOLD..

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TheRussianLord

Then we can just leave it as is. :P

Halakbalakbalak

becsuse mot of the bnet population is american and knows what the m1 abrms is

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