Nos-Feratu.

The reason I bring this up is because I used to play Footie style games all the time. They were based on units back then, the Footmen and with each version heros become more and more powerful. That's the reason I had stopped playing it. I was just wondering what people think of it as it is in terms of the skills or heros.

MrOrange

You have to remember that Ultimate footmen is still in it's beta stage. And it's been almost half a year since the last release because of the new things added and many balancing problems. Also Ultimate Footmen originally had many custom heroes that were made and made the original blizzard heroes very weak so those heroes were needed do make them stronger. And the very first version was .50. Then .75. Then .79. That's only three releases total. And you as a map maker should also know that balancing also needs the opinion of the public. And Ultimate Footmen didn't gain enough popularity to have an active forum until about .75. So really only .79 was the real start on balancing with public opinion. And Ultimate Footmen isn't like some maps that makes a new version very two weeks with almost nothing changed.

MrApples

Hes referring to the basic elements, how strong heroes are by default.

MrOrange

Oh. Ok. Well anyway I still go by that it's still beta and something about a forum. And about publics opinion. And that it would have come sooner or later. Oh well. Much more simpler when it's in one topic. Now we can get it in the open and talk about this. Well anyway I seen some footmen was map where they focus too much on the units. They failed. I seen ones that tries to balanced them equally. They also failed. And I like the heroes being so strong because that makes it fast pace. But if there is a way to make it fast pace but make it more balanced with heroes then go head.

Nos-Feratu.

But, Shadow, I join an Ultimate Footmen or any other Footie game for it to live up to it's name. Don't you hate it how later on in the game it turns into, essentialy, a hero arena? I believe the map should be all focused on the units and heros as a side like the old versions. It was a great map and it can be great again, in my eyes. I think removing skills or making them the same for every hero would be the best way to go. Such as one skill that summons reinforcements, Attributes, one AoE spell, one target spell, and an Ulti that makes the hero powerful. Those are essential elements that could make it great.

And I agree this is only my opinion and I want the public to weigh in because they may not all think like me.

MrOrange

Well that's not how I play so I'm not really sure. I actually get a strong leveled hero in the beginning then I make gold. Then I upgrade my tier 1 or 2 units insanely making them stronger then most 3-4 tiers and most heroes if they don't have the right items.

Motoko

I have to agree with Nos-Feratu in the fact that the game is becoming a little to hero based. I don't think that having all generic spells is a really good idea because that would remove some of the strategy from the game (units should be more important still but heroes should still be interesting) that and not having a new version in so long is the reason i switched to risk in the first place. so i think that weakening all heroes overall may work (it may also go horribly wrong and unbalance the entire game lol).

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

MrOrange

Why not just make every units stronger?

yebeth1234

hmm. some interesting points you guys bring up good points. i have to agree with shadow though. the units should be made stronger simply because they don't have as many skills and stats to balance as the heros do. also stronger units will speed the game up rather then weakening heros and slowing the game down.

most heros are equal in strenght to each other so i think the units should be brought up to their level rather then lowering the heros to the units level. the only units i think is fine is the undead. they can take on heros in most cases (unless hero has good items).

MrOrange

I think that main problem is that people fail to know when it's a good time to start attacking and when it is a bad time to start attacking. If you have a warden then most people start attacking bases early to learn what heroes they have and hopefully kill a unit or two before they leave. And they can do that because warden has the blink spell. But if you have a hero like Lord Emblem which is very weak during the beginning of the game then you don't attack other's bases because then you would die easily. Making stronger units might make the mass middle go faster so people won't make the mistake of attacking a base early with a warrior hero.

Nos-Feratu.

I don't know about the buffing the units over the weakening spells idea. Here's what happened to me that set this off: It was me and one other player and I had teched all game so far. After our ally left he started pooling me so I upgraded to demonic dragon type units (I forget the name) which were the last tier of upgrading. Once I finished, a player with some 16 level Blood Mage spawned 3 Phoenixs to camp my base... Tell me that's not lame? All game I had spent teching these units to the max and his 3 Phoenixs come in and just spawn and kill every unit while he masses up his crappy units that come in and kill my ally while he is camping me...

This is why skills need to be nerfed instead of units buffed.

MrOrange

That's weird. No good player would ever tech demons. They just aren't cost effective. I suggest teching undead with a good speed attack upgrade. But anyway. That's kind of weird because cryit fiends with little upgrades easily defeated a level 16 Bloodmage's phinoxes.

yebeth1234

ya. and remember pheonixs ARE ultimates so it should be able to kill 1 dragon at a time pretty easy.

MrOrange

How much did you upgrade them anyway? A level 16 of any hero should and would be strong enough to beat any tier unit, that isn't upgraded.

Nos-Feratu.

I don't know what level he was maybe he was 20 something but that's not the point. The point is he had three phoenixes with 300 damage and very fast attack speed in my base. And you say Demons aren't cost affective? That's not my fault, sorry I'm not a pro to realize that. And it's not the fact that the phoenixes should be able to defeat a dragon it's the fact that it ruins the game play. I couldn't train a hero, just sit there while my ally died. It's the whole concept of these heroes being too powerful is all and people obviously agree with me if you notice the poll.

yebeth1234

ok im not english teacher but i know one thing about words. some words carry more power then other (like killled and masscred) and combinations can either make choosing one thing sound stupid. "so what?" you ask?well i am pretty sure that "Do YOU like all of the rigged heroes/spells in Ultimate Footmen?" isn't fair. you imply that Ultimate footmen is rigged (but in truth most of it is just unbalanced). you give the choice to people of either saying that they like all the "rigged" heroes/skills (of which there are few) or they don't like all the "rigged" heroes/skills... well tough choice here.

Ultimate footmen is still in its Beta. now, of course there is going to be unbalances BUT Mr. Apples is trying his best to fix them.i think the reason people still play Ultimate is BECAUSE of the strong heroes. have you noticed how there are so many other versions footmen frenzy? do you wonder why they aren't all very popular (or at least as popular as frenzy)? because they aren't DIFFERENT. ultimate footmen is different and appeals to people who like stronger heroes. personally i play footmen frenzy and call it unbalanced because my hero can't do skittles the first half of the game. but this isn't about footmen frenzy its about ultimate.

so YOU stop complaining about how "rigged" all of the heros/spells in Ultimate Footmen are and focus on making it "unrigged" without saying you want to redo ALL the heroes/skills:

this is completely unnecessary. most of the heroes have balanced enough skills AND satisfy the requirements you outlined above (with cases where auras replace other certain other skills). and the ones that don't? well thats why we have a new feature request forum. to make unbalanced heroes more balanced.

...just trying my word choosing skills let me know if it swayed anyone at all...(but i do mean the points above)

Nos-Feratu.

Yebeth, apparently I offended you but you seem to not be thinking clearly. Obviously if someone believes that the map is rigged they can vote No and if they disagree with the whole notion they can simply post up their reasons right here. You think i'm attacking this map and that's funny. The reason i'm here is because Apples offered for me to do Object Editor work on it and I wanted opinions and you took it a little too far with your insulting three paragraph essay.

And as for the BETA thing, I know it's in its BETA it's not like you people have told me some 20 times already and MrApples told me too, not to mention it's on the map. I think you need to relax and stop taking this so seriously, I came here to get opinions not harassment but oh well.

Grow up..

MrOrange

I still don't completely agree with you. Yes I know some heroes are a little too strong. But for the time it's been out people has been able to manage. Which means I don't think it's as bad as you think. The demon tier's major fault is that it's expensive so you have a hard time upgrading your units. Which is a major set-back against summon units. So as much as I disagree with your opinion I still respect it. Besides if we didn't take the words of other people then what does that make us? NoHunters?

Nos-Feratu.

It's funny how hostile you are acting, oh well. It's not like you put major work into the map I came here for OPINIONS once again, not hostility. It's just a game that I wanted to improve to meet old standards but you disagree and that's all you have to say.

So negative..

luigi_fan64

lol there is ams for a reason it may take a while but if you are planning on attacking and want to get a good start on it then put ams onyour army and stop there spells and since phoinix uses magic you wouldnt have been hit and could have destroyed them easily. lol am i the only 1 who puts ams on there army berfore attacking to preventt my army from being blown away?

-------------------------
A wise man once said, When you know whats good for people more then they do, you have the right to impose your will on those people. As a mod of pollama, i have that right.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

MrOrange

Yes. I usually don't know how strong phinoxies really are. I always get armads and kill them before they can kill 3 of my units.

Titan

Ultimate FootmEn (<-- there is an E implying more than one)
Then again, if you are only using one footman, pardon my english

Im not sure if you would want to call it 'down the wrong path'.. somthing more like 'do you know what path you want to take, and what path you are taking now'. Yes, there are alot of heros in UltF that you could easily just NOT use units untill end game when you want to basekill, even then maybe not. One MAJOR update that needs to be done is remove the ammulet given at the begining of the game (if randomed) OR decrease the health and mana of all heros by that same ammount given. AMS is being taken out, and thus there will (at least should) be major changes to the heros damage on skills, most noticable the single target spells. Not only the damage, but cooldown aswell, because you know how annoying it is when Bloodmage can cast ethereal on you every 15 seconds, with a 15 second cooldown. Regarding cooldown for spells that have a lasting effect, keep the cooldown to TWICE as much as the effect last. Spell off the top of my head are hex and ethereal.

Anothing you need to understand, rigged implys that the outragiously overpowered parts were INTENDED to be exactly like that. And incase you havnt relized yet, there was never an intention to create an extremely overpowered hero that will kill anything no matter who uses it.

I dont aggree that heroes/spells are rigged, its more of a need for improvement, alot of improvment.

Another thing, do not dwell on what people THINK about the map, dwell on what can be done to improve the map so no one has bad responses.

Another thing, MAGIC type damage (phenix, hawks, PotM summons, maybe more) needs to have seriously reduced dmg to hero type armor, maybe 60-70, because it does get annoying when they summon some guys rite on top of you, 2 seconds later you are dead. Another reason to increase the reduction is because of the ethereal spell bloodmage has, with like 300 damage each attack on a phenix, that added damage applied with ethereal makes it FAR too much. Also, what if you just had ONE phenix on Bloodmages ultimate.

Footmen maps have become an Hero Arena in the sense that it HAS HEROES. Im not saying remove the heros, its more that you guys criticize the map too much. Heroes are meant to be strong, strong enough to kill a mass of plain units. But to get a pure footmen frenzy map, you should be able to use ANY hero with an army and be able to whoop on ANY other hero ingame. Thus showing a real meaning to the use of units.

MrOrange

I know AMS will be taken out but how about another item that weakens spells be added. Like an aura or something. Also a slience to a bloodmage makes him useless to almost everything.

Titan

Uhh there is a PERM item for that.. and it also gives unholy aura. reduces spell dmg by like 50%

MrOrange

Wait. Is it done like an aura? I just thought that was for the hero with it only? Who cares. I use it for the unholy aura anyway.