King_Leopold

So yes, no? under certain circumtances? only certain types?

Personally, I find the concept of the abortion disturbing, especially because of new technologies, doctors are able to keep unintentionally premature babies alive from earlier and earlier stages.

At the same time, if my girlfiend got pregnant, I'd probably vote for her getting an abortion. Is it hyprocritcal to say she should get one, while you think its wrong, yea I guess it is. but hey I'm not perfect, just giving my opinion.

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HyperReaper33

Man, you are really on a roll with these, aren't you?

graal

Hahaha... nice topic... I am in favor of abortion, too... What is the use of having a baby if you don't want it? It will probably won't have a good life... (at least not childhood)... Is it killing? Yeah, probably... but who cares? it isn't born yet, there could still be a natural abort... (well, very unlikely...) Also, you are the ones who "created" the baby (father and mother), so I guess you have the right to finish it off before it is born... (I think it only has rights the moment it is born)

I know most people disagree, (and I won't go to the religious field, because I don't want the Thinking Cap deleted, or the topic closed... and I know people take religion seriously)

King_Leopold

why would it get deleted for having religious topics? this is the point of this forum to have discussions, if you start insulting things, then that willl lead to things getting closed

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graal

Yeah, but we need to beware of the way we talk about religion, in order not to insult anyone... and it is too late in the night for me to pay so much attention to what I write... hehehe

King Stubby

i personally think that instead of having an abortion, they either transfer the embryo to someone who wants it but can't have kids, or just put it up for adoption after it's born.

graal

Well, I don't really think it is possible to transfer the embryo after like 1 or 2 months of pregnancy, besides really few kids go who to adoption have a good life later on... (really... it is a fact, most end up not getting adopted, or going to foster families)

I think one should have the choice of not giving life

King Stubby

I think that If the baby will not be able to be cared for, abortion would be okay.

Ayuoobi

Abortion is murder. Studies show that a child learns from the womb. That means that they are intelligent beings from the time they are fetus's. In other words, it's the same as murdering a less intelligant child.

kairge

You know I hate to not be with the whole mainstream scientific yeah you should approach, but I'm not thinking that way. Not only because it is still murder no mater how developed your child is, but because of the couple's descisions when they have sex.

If you are pregnant it is usually your own doing and choice. So, it is your responsibility to see to the raising of this child, instead of seeking the easy way out like the usual slob would.

If you agreed to do him, or her without a condom or any sort of protection, then tough titties, you have a kid like people will always have, and your going to have to raise them nice and properly as people have always should. And if you don't, that just shows exactly what kind of person you are.

I understand that accidents do happen, but when you have sex you take the chance of being pregnant. When you have voluntary sex you oughta understand that you CAN get pregnant, or get somebody pregnant. And if your stupid enough to do this, then you do not deserve the easy way out. There is help for you if you are having trouble raising a child but if you want help then you must first put effort into it, or else instead, those offering help, will take the child away and that will also show just what a kind of person you are.

And really, its perfectly fair, you had sex and you got pregnant, or OOPS didn't see that coming,the condom just burst. The only way it would be fair for somebody, is the life you take from another human being. Whether or not they're developed.

Stubby, I think you have a good grasp of this subject.

I can understand rape victims getting abortions, since it was not their choice to be pregnant they deserve to make it so, and I have to say I'd really respect rape victims that actually go through with rearing a child that was a result of rape. And I hope ayuoobi understands this too, that if it is not your choice to have sex and get pregnant that you should make it so.

I really respect those, that even though the child is accidental, go through with it and rear the child to be an functional member of society, ESPECIALLY those who have to cope with lesser wages and tighter budgets than most. It shows character, intelligence, commitment, and being an overall good person.

But, I gotta say I do not like that fact that you can simply by your way out of moronic mistakes. That you do not need to care about consequenses because you have the money, and I have to say in most cases that one should not have the privelidge of abortion. Because thats what it is, it isn't a right to sneaking out of a commitment. It is a priviledge given to us by our advancements as science, that seems to be taken for granted.

As of me, I'm a hypocrite, all of this stuff is easier said than done and I also agree with leopold's approach. So if I ever do have a girlfriend, I will try and hold off on sex till I'm committed and ready for a kid. Once more, easily said than done. >_<

Lohengrin

I'm mostly partial to graal's view...

I'd like it to remain a choice whether or not to reproduce. If one decides to not have kids in their lifetime I find it a bit ludicrous to advocate a life of celibacy. I don't pay much heed to the moral aspects of this issue; I am in favor of abortion strictly because of its convenience.

Eddy9007

Argh,
But don't they only become a person after being born, if they die in the womb I think they are not a person...

King Stubby

Technically, they don't develop conscious thought until the late 2nd trimester or the 3rd trimester, and by that time, it would already be illegal to kill them. I'm fairly certain that you can only abort in the first and second trimesters.

EtherealCookie

I think abortion is pretty much wrong, your taking the life of someone. If you got your girl pregnant, holy **** your fault. You should be ready for that sort of thing if your going to have sex, and if it was somehow an accident, as I said, you should totally be ready for something like that If you want to have sex. But taking the life of someone because you were trying to indulge in your desires and an accident happened is wrong.

King Stubby

But if you couldn't care for the baby, would you rather have it born and be either adopted or not cared for?

EtherealCookie

Let it be adopted then.

LordForcystus

You're looking at this too "black and white". The only "gray" on here is the rape situation (which is being ignored conveniently).

What anyone has failed to mention is this situation:

You and your wife, both pro-life, have been trying to get pregnant because you want children. Your wife takes a pregnancy test and calls you with the good news. ...skip forward... Still in the first trimester you go get a routine pregnancy check up.

Your doctor gives you news that wrecks your life. If your wife gives birth to the child there is a 90% chance that her and the baby will both die. But you can still get an abortion that would kill the baby but save the mother's life.

What would you do in that situation? Personally I'd have my wife have the abortion. I have a 90% chance to lose my wife and child if I don't go through with abortion, or a 99% chance for my wife to live if I have her have the abortion. The logic is in the abortion.

EtherealCookie

In a situation like that, yeah, I'd suggest abortion, seeing as people might die over it.

King Stubby

and with the rape situation, as i debated this in 8th grade social studies!

Let's say a married lady is sleeping, and Barney comes into her room and rapes her. When the doctor says that the baby is not hers and her husband's, but hers and BARNEY's! Would you keep the baby of your rapist?

sexyfool

Some deep and honest thought here. I would want my wife to keep the child irrespective, but it is also a decision that most impacts her. What will she think of every time she looks at this child?? I would hope that she sees a child. Let's face it, the criminal was the rapist, the child is as much a victim as the woman. Perhaps that's easier for me to say because I won't be carrying around the scars in my womb for 9 months.

Abortion in general? It is, in my honest opinion, a crime of convenience. I can assure you that the list for would be adoptive parents is very very long. The standards these couples must meet are extremely high. Is adoption a "perfect" choice? No! But it is a better choice than killing a person simply because giving birth to that person was inconvenient.

I strongly urge anyone who believes that pre birth people are not "real" people to visit the post natal care section of any hospital. Where my children were born is a photo wall covered in pictures of premature babies so small they can wear wedding rings as bangles. Just think about that for a moment. Children born between 18 and 32 weeks, ages at which, in Australia, a women may still obtain a legal "termination", all growing to wonderful people who otherwise may not have had a chance.

Life is precious. Any life. Let's do all we can to preserve it.

Ironlotus13

uh no but if u kept the child and put it up for adoption the earlie years of the childs life could be put to good use.....useing dna to track down Barney and have him killed for being a rapist. id like to start a new thread on the topic of when should we kil.l a criminal?

darkwulfv

I think abortion is fine. If the parents decide that they don't want a child, that's their choice and their choice alone. Let's also look at some scenarios.

Rape: Obvious, the woman was forced into it.

Abuse: Would you rather the 'child' not live at all (and never know it was alive. You can't have an abortion past the mid-2nd trimester, and conciousness isn't until at least the 3rd) then grow up under abusive parents and suffer?

Teenagers: Teens have sex. Yeah. But consider this: The girl is on birth control and the guy uses a condom. The condom breaks (or slips) and the BC fails that 2%. They were doing everything right, and luck ****ed them over. Teenagers are NOT ready for children, no matter what people say. Very rarely will a teenager have a baby and live a positive teenage life. If the couple wants an abortion, why not?

Poor surroundings: Would you rather the 'child' never live rather than grow up in a rundown piece of **** area with shootings, rapes, etc. etc.? That's rough, and nobody should ever have to go through that.

Adoption: Is bull****. A LOT of children are up for adoption, and many of them live many years in adoption centers, or end up in the hands of random foster parents. That's seriously rough. Plus, everyone has some absurd need to adopt children from random other countries like etheopia or korea or stuff instead of their own country.

Stem Cell research: Let's set this up. Would you rather kill one small clump of cells in order to end the suffering of possibly hundreds of people, or would you rather the child live and not be wanted anyways?


A lot of this debate is religious, but religion can suck an egg. It seriously clouds a lot of peoples' rational judgement and can skewer ideas from being good to being "sinful" or "immoral".

Lohengrin

Pffffffffft.

There is too much of this precious life on this Earth. I mean, what, 6 billion people or something? Egads! You'd think that population would follow currency's rule and as it would rise, the value would go down. Alas, it seems that the opposite has happened! Hah.

darkwulfv

sexyfool (what kind of name is that?), life hasn't been precious for over about 500 years or more. The world is starting to push its bounds, and with 6 billion people I am willing to bet my entire life, family, and all my possessions that the removal of one life that would've lived a ****ty one will not cause all of humanity to fail due to lack of lives.

EtherealCookie

I actually think if we had less people we would have less problems, so yeah. Less cars being used, less polution, more jobs avaliable, but the fact that you're killing off something because you were careless is pretty ****ed up. And teenagers shouldn't be having sex. Its the parents fault, for that.