King_Leopold

Well I chose a nice topic that should be nice and controversial.

So what is your stance on gay marriage? Should it be legal or no?

Personally, I say why not. If a guy wants to marry a guy, or a girl a girl, why should I care, it doesn't affect me. Some people disagree on religious grounds, but a normally a marriage has two parts - a religious part and a civil part. The religious part is run by a church, and they can choose to marry only who they want to marry. The state part though I don't think should be controlling who can marry who. Church and state are supposed to be separate after all.

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MrOrange

Religiously I believe that Gay Marriage should not be allowed.

But personally I believe that Gay Marriage should be allowed. And that Homosexuals should have rights. Because remember that awhile back, men believed that women shouldn't have rights and if you think about it now, we have a women we is trying to run for president. And after the whole Dumbldoor or whatever his name is in Harry Potter (never read Harry Potter. I hate reading books that everyone is reading and talk about. I'll read it when things settles down a little) people are going to be more exceptive of it.

graal

I agree with Orange, no Religious Marriage, but why not civil marriage?
If you think, there really is no difference if they are married or not, they will have the same kind of relationship, the difference is that they will have rights (as stated by Orange) and the prejudice tends to reduce if they are under the law... (well, not that much, but at least a little)

About the dumbledoor thing, really don't know what you meant... didn't see anything gay on harry potter...

MrOrange

J.K. Rolling openly admitted that Dumbledoor is gay.

It was all over the news, how could you miss it?

HyperReaper33

Same.

Is "Civil Union" good enough? I think so.

MrOrange

But I still say that being homosexual is not genetic. You have a total choice in the matter. Unless sciencists can say that it is genetic and it isn't as debatable as Global Warming (another great controversy topic someone should post about) then maybe I might believe them.

I have some friends who are gay and I told them all the same exact words. As long as you don't want to date me or have any "special" feelings on me. I'm totally fine with it.

graal

Well, I have no reason to look for news about harry potter... besides, there wasn't anything in the history that could make people believe he was gay... (and yes, I read the 7 books) I think she only said that to help the gay cause... (well, nice move of hers...)

and only to reinforce what I said before, I see no reason for a religious marriage, there is really no logic, religion goes totally against gays... (sex should be made only for reproduction, if I understood well the texts, so 2 people of same sex should never be together)

King_Leopold

i don't know why people are gay...if its a choice/genetic/whatever, but i dont see why it really matters.

Should they just be allowed civil unions or marriages, why not marriages?

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graal

I said why not marriages... because religion says sex is only for reproduction and gays will never reproduce, so they shouldn't have sex, so they shouldn't get married... If Christianism goes against the use of condoms, as you can't have children using them and, according to them, the virus is so small that it doesn't protect against aids, how can they possibly allow gay marriage?

But I am totally in favor of civil union, as it would grant the same rights as for non-gay unions and I defend a society without prejudice.

HyperReaper33

Because "Marriage" is a union announced by God that two people are binding thier lives, and is strictly man-woman since the dawn of Marriage itself. I think I got most of that right.

That, and what graal said. Mostly what graal said though....lol

graal

Well, it is weird to see a topic like this where everybody is in favor of gay marriage... there are many people who would hate reading we are in favor of it... (maybe they are afraid of flame or something... well, I hope people really are getting less prejudice, that it isn't only fear of being flamed, or something)

King_Leopold

well thats what marriage is for churches, but not for the state. for the state, its a contract between 2 people that has certain obligations involved, it doesnt really involve god, athiests do get married too after all


Yea i was surprised people were in favor, i thought it was going to be all yelling against it

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graal

Yes, exactly... but gays probably know that they are in sin, having sex with people of the same sex... (but again, everybody who uses condom is in sin too, so who cares? )

MrOranges is gonna delete the Thinking Cap... every topic seems to be going to the religion field... hehehe

King_Leopold

well its a big social issue, ill think up some more interesting topics in time

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luigi_fan64

The definition of marriage is the holy matromony of a man and a woman, wich makes no sense when you get down to it. Wich is the same sex marriage of a man and a women. That definition just contridicts itself. I say let em marry but dont call it marriage.

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A wise man once said, When you know whats good for people more then they do, you have the right to impose your will on those people. As a mod of pollama, i have that right.

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King Stubby

without a lot of world experience, i still have to say gays should have rights. my sister's friend is gay, but nobody here laughs at him, because it's a small town and nobody really cares. I think it mostly has to do with the environment their in, on whether they get ridiculed or not.

MrOrange

Don't worry about me ruinning your fun. Leo and Hyper are both posting regularly enough on the Thinking Cap. And in my opinion those two are some of the best moderators you can have. So I coiuld choice not to even look at this board and those two alone and greatly keep order.

Also excluding stubby, we're all very imature. And comparing the "stubby" of other forums. We got the most intelligent one.

Well I'll end right there.

LordForcystus

About the whole, genetics/choice thing about being gay.

I don't think it is a choice. I say this because one of my friends has recently outted himself. He pretty much said it was torture. He told me he wished he was straight sometimes. So I personally doubt it's a choice.

graal

This choice thing is totally relative, I myself do not believe in free will...

I think it isn't genetic (well, gays don't usually have children... sometimes they do, but the gay population would be diminishing, not increasing)

I think it is like this, the person you are is totally dependent on the experiences you had and the choices you made... but, you made these choices based on experiences and choices before that... so, it will all come to the experiences you had when you couldn't really choose what to do, because you were too young for that (you didn't really know what you were doing)... and that's why I don't believe in free will... I believe we are almost like computers... we were programmed while we still couldn't make our own choices and now, we can't change, because what we are is based on it, and we don't know how to be someone else.

Well, maybe it is all bull****, but accoring to it, anyone chooses to be gay, it is because they were "raised" like that... they had experiences that made them like that. And no, I'm not blaming the parents, the experiences weren't all caused by them.

(Hope I didn't sound too crazy)

MrOrange

I still say it is a choice. But I can't honestly say that I'm right. As far as we know hetrosexual and homosexual are just a state of mind. When we could all very well be bisexual and we just lean into one of the two sides.

But I'm going to say the same thing I say to most people. With Bush still president, I have more important things like making sure the U.S. will not die because of him. So I have no real time to look into homosexual or heterosexual issue. If homosexuals wants to get married and like a horrible life like the rest of us. Then let them.

graal

What do you mean by "making sure the U.S. will not die because of him."? Think we should open a new topic to discuss it?

King_Leopold

here's another idea, from somehting i read for school, basically it says the whole idea of heterosexual and homosexual are both very new - like maybe a couple hundred years old. Before that. Before that there were still men who had sex with men, and the same for women, but idea of being gay didnt exist. The idea is that focusing on the difference between gay and straight is really new.

Is this completely true? I don't know. Just making you think.

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MrOrange

Naw, it would be the most one-sided discussion ever. But you have the right to post a new topic.
I just don't plain like George Bush.

graal

You see, on greek/roman empires, it was really common for men to be gay... (and I mean REALLY common), and it wasn't a social problem, people didn't care... (actually, I'm not sure if they were gay or bi, but it doesn't really matter much, in my opinion)

Also, if you look in nature, there are also "gays" in other especies, that's why I don't think it is really a "choice" (I don't believe animals make choices), I can't explain what it is...

The thing about the idea of gay not existing before, it is an interesting way of thinking, I think the world is only more prejudice nowadays, people care more about diferences, it probably has to do with the globalization, some ideas are spread (movies, music, etc...) and they are hetero ideas, so when you see something diferent, you tend to think it is wrong, they don't really think it is something common, and that's probably why people are so afraid of it (fear of the unknown).

HyperReaper33

*cough*Greeks*cough*

There is research in the field that says homosexuality is, in fact, hereditary. But, then you think back to Leo's quote, and it contridicts itself. Or maybe we are evolving slower...maybe heterosexuality is the weird one!

..........

Or maybe we're all in the Matrix.