graal

This is, in the religious/scientific field... Do you believe in God, or some other kind of entity? Do you believe in the Theory of Evolution? Do you believe in something else that wasn't mentioned, or something only you believes?

Come on, let's just talk about possible theories for our existence...

(well, if you don't like discussing this, there isn't much I can do...)

As for what I think, I'll say it if other people send messages, I don't wanna talk alone here... hehehe

(It is sad to see a whole area of the forum without any Thread... specially one like this)

HyperReaper33

I'm just gonna' come out and say it.

I am Christian, and I believe in God, but mostly I question it because of Religion itself, and it's past. You know, Crusades and the Reformation?

Mostly I think because I've been sucked into the fact that if you don't believe, then you go to Hell. However...what if none of that exists? Well, I'll never know till' I'm dead....but once I'm dead, I'll either live on in Heaven, or rot in the Earth with no chance of continuity.

Meh.

DarkBlade

Yea, I believe in God too. But I wish I could have understandable proof :P It all still confuses me.

graal

Well, I understand what you mean, Hyper... I also believed in God pretty much for the same reasons you do... my family believed these things and I was raised believing, but then I started to think about it and said "I don't believe this religion anymore... I only believe in God" well, I made that decision because of the awful things christinism had done... (as you mentioned, the crusades... also the exploration, all that money taken mainly from poor people...)

Some time later, though, I started to think diferently... I was like... "how can this world be so unfair if there is something like a God?"... I just kept looking around and everything seemed so wrong and unfair, so I started to believe there was no thing as God, it was impossible... (I believed in Atheism back then)

But now, I am agnostic... I don't know if there is a God and I don't think I will ever know...

Well, you probably wonder if I don't fear Hell, as an agnostic? No, not really... if there is a God, he probably wouldn't send me to hell only for not believing Him... anyway, Hell is probably more fun then Heaven : ^)
I also have, sometimes, some crazy ideas like "it is impossible for this world to exist... it is only my imagination"... I am like "internet is impossible"... hahaha, but it is only sometimes...

LordForcystus

Wow. No one else has caught this?
Just so you know...evolution doesn't say we came from monkeys.
Monkeys are modern species, we couldn't have evolved from them.
It only implies (with plenty of evidence) that we and monkeys had a common ancestor.
Oh and btw, this ancestor existed just about right before the Great Rift Valley in Africa was formed. This ancestor lived in the trees and ate fruits (similar to monkeys, but just SIMILAR).

When the Great Rift Valley formed, one side stayed a jungle, where Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and other monkeys LATER evolved. The other side became a grasslands with very few trees. Obviously if you have no trees, you can't live in them, and there is no fruit.

I don't personally know all the details of what happened (no one knows ALL the details, I'm just telling you I know less than say...a biology major in college or Biochemist or something) but the ancestral group on the barren side of the Great Rift Valley eventually evolved into bipeds (walked upright on two feet). Later these bipeds evolved into say...Homo Erectus, Homo Habilus, Homo Neanderthalensis (spelled correctly?), and later Homo Sapiens. It's unclear exactly which one eventually evolved into "modern humans" (Homo Sapiens) and I don't know if I have them in the correct order.

But odds have it you probably don't care anyway.





Oh and I'm Agnostic leaning towards Atheist. I was born a Catholic.

Royal Disaster

The Crusades? It wasn't about religion. The Reformation? What of it?

graal

Actually, I know that... but it is easier to ask "do you believe we came from monkeys?" than saying "do you believe we and the monkeys had an unknown common antecessor?" actually, I guess I'll change to "Do you believe in the theory of evoluion?" it is better, I guess... I'll edit it...

PS: Nice to see I'm not the only agnostic here

MrOrange

I'm one of those people who believes that the internet is not a place to talk about religion. Or at least on forums. That my personal opinion, I won't prevent you guys from doing it. It's just I'm one of those people who also believes it's not only what you say but how you say it. And on the internet, you can't show how you're saying it and you might get the wrong message across.

I'm christain, in a way I consider myself a born-again christian even though I was born christain because there was a time in my life where I almost left to be agnostic.

Also in case you guys didn't know my policy on stuff like religion. I don't tolerate any type of flaming or taunting. It's a "sensitive topic" and this is one of the few times I believe that a person's feelings are to be considered when you post. But you all seem like reasonable people who thinks rationally so I don't think there will be any problems. I trust that Hyper is more then capable to keep this topic in order.

LordForcystus

Thanks graal. It just angers me when people say that ("that" being the monkeys thing).


I'm a little surprised no one has said anything about my being agnostic (almost atheist). Guess I'm just not exciting lol!!

graal

You have a point there, it was pretty much an economic matter... but you must admit that the Christians supported the crusades... (just look to the symbol and the name)... and it was absurd, specially the children crusade.

@MrOrange: I totally agree with what you said, I created this Thread with the purpose of discussing ideas, not trying to say one religion/idea is better than another, nor anything like it. I only like discussing this kind of thing, because I believe discussing is the best way of learning.

LordForcystus

So true.

MrOrange

That's good to hear. I go to some forums and someone makes this topic and then the staff goes to one side and then the other size leaves and then half the forum is gone along with any projects or clans they have. And then the forums doies out. I just don't want that to happen here.

But it's easy to tell that you guys have lives outside of the internet. You guys are too mature.

graal

Well, I forgot to say on my main message, but I sometimes wish I had a religion or something, I wish I had something to believe, to believe death isn't the end. It is kinda sad to think that, after some years of life, it will end, your brain will stop working and that's it, game over...

But it is like a one way road... once you start thinking too much (as I did) about how unlikely it is for God to exist, you can't go back... I would call myself a philosopher (I didn't ever study philosphy, but I am most of the time thinking about life, why are we here, where we go after death, and all these things) and I think that once a philosopher, always a philosopher. And thinking that much makes you see that there are infinite diferent possible theories for all those questions, so there is little chance of God being the real one... (although so many people believe it)

The problem is that I don't have faith, if you have faith, it is probably easy to believe in Him, I never had faith and now, only a miracle or something would make me have it. I kinda envy people who can blindly believe in God, because they have a reason to live their lives, knowing there will be something afterwards... (even if there isn't, they died believing there would be, so they were happy...)

Well, that's about it... I hope anyone felt bad about anything I said, if you did, I'm sorry.

LordForcystus

Lol. I know the lol seems a little misplaced but I'll explain.

Pretty much everything you've said is what made me decide to make my life the best it could be. Now I decided this before you said that, but that's probably obvious to you. I've decided to do something to well...at least try and save the Earth (I'm talking about all the things us humans have done to it and all which inhabit it). Whatever it is I may do, I hope I do it? Well I've confused myself.

graal

I know what you mean... I've also decided to do something like it, some time ago... (not exactly save the Earth) I've decided to do something great, because if I can't leave forever and I don't believe there will be something after I die, at least I want to have something that will make people remember me, so I'll at least live in memory... I want to some day be studied in history, or something like that...

LordForcystus

Oh darn I forgot to quote. Oh well. Anyway, I totally agree if I'm going to be gone forever, I want to live on through my actions (hopefully positively).

HyperReaper33

No prob Shadow (yes, I will STILL call you by that dammit), I got this.


And Reformation did have negative effects on the religion, in my opinion. John Wycliffe, starter of the Reformation (not Martin Luther, as most believe), was burned at the stake for heresy. For thinking different. Him among many. That is disturbing, and subtracts a few points for me


As for wanting to have something to believe...you can take up Taoism. Look it up, I don't feel like explaining, lol

King Stubby

not to insult anyone, but i don't believe in god. I think humans evolved, and

then Aliens came to the planet, and showed us their "godlike" power. they told

us to build giant temples and things, and the miracles were just examples of

their technology. what do YOU think the golden flaming wheel in the sky was?

Also,

they pointed at a beggar (possibly with some sort of device) and cured him of

leprosy? just my opinion, but it stands to reason. and magic is probably a myth

people made about the alien's technology. Ancient egyptian gods had animal

heads, possibly alien, who knows? the Mesopotamians had Ziggurats with little

stairs for them, and gigantic steps for their gods.


Now for my brother's opinion: I'll put it more simply. what if both evolution AND god existed? For example, God makes the big bang. BOOM! Bacteria people! Then he helps life evolve.

graal

well, well, well... interesting theory... only one question, why did the aliens go away? or are they still around?

as for your brother's theory, most religious scientists believe that... it is a good theory, but not something I find very likely.

Royal Disaster

The catholics burned at the stake for political reasons. Europe didn't want diverse religions just as much as they didn't want multi culturalism. I'm not a catholic

graal

Nice, now we know what you do not believe... next question is, what do you believe? I like to listen to what other people believes, try to find new beliefs for myself...

Mr. Zero

I believe in evolution, or no religion. I mean should we come from a guy (with a missing rib!) and a girl, who all of sudden became aware of the world around them?
How would that explain "homo" species? Our ancestors looks a lot like us and do have a certain similarity with apes... Like 96% of a ape's DNA is the same to a human's DNA.

And what's up with a person in the sky (where we have already been) looking down at us and supposedly just watch for the fun?

Now if you ask me if I believe in ghost and soul...

graal

Well, do you? Because spiritism is something I find at least interesting...

HyperReaper33

I also thought that was kinda' "Meh", the whole Adam and Eve/Cane and Able/everything-else-at-that-particular-part-of-the-Bible thing. Incest created us! WEEEEEE!!!

And I do believe in ghosts. I've talked to one. It's scary ****; I really, REALLY don't recommend that.

Ghosts bring a new light in, now that I think about it. Why? Supposedly it has something to do with the fact that energy never decays; never goes away. Does that mean our "souls" are energy? Weird...

graal

Well, to answear if souls are energy, I would first have to admit that there are souls, and I don't think so... why? Because if we did, we would probably have knowledge when we were born... well... it doesn't keep knowledge? Then, maybe it is the answear to the gay marriag topic... it isn't genetic, nor is it a choice, it is in people's soul... : ^)

Really, can't say I believe in souls, but there are those people who say that when we die we lose 21 grams... and that would be the weight of our soul... (there is a movie based on it, if I remember well) and after we die, it leaves our body and so we lose weight... (that would also work for the energy theory, because e=mc²... so, losing energy (the soul that is leaving), means losing mass, which means weight...

Well, I guess I spoke too much to someone who doesn't believe it...