Myth)I(Apollo

Note: The intention behind his post is not to discredit the win, but solely to set precedents in upcoming matches.

the controversy consists of sharing information out of bitterness.





controversial quotes by cupid:

1. "they have tauren, ogres, masters"

2. "Apollo, shocker, mini_cee" (said to answer a question as to who had what bases)





Controversial quotes by Wrath[DiF]

1. "You guys sure like priests dont you?"- directed to unholy's team because they had attacked priests indicating that they werent in their bases.

2. "party at horsefields"

-3 teams were at horsefields.



by Oberyntheviper (captain)

1. "well shock has masters"

2. "watch out for masters, and shock has centaurs too"

-precautions to the 2 other teams targetting shockers team.

3. "Apollo is scouting at anglar, or where it used to be"

- givng my scout location away as well as telling anglar is gone"

4. "shock sock is spawning 2 sorcerers at centaurs but the base is empty now"

-basically telling unholys team to attack centrax which they did



by tired

1. "****, pathas, tauren (cow hero), and trajan, are you kidding me?"

-pretty much gave out a whole team's heroes.

2. "EVERY1 ATTACK HORSEFIELDS NOW!"

-he saw fighting at horsefields and wanted more participants so his smaller army could win.

3. " you didnt get them (at taurens) *******s " and unholy says "wer hitting centrax"

4. "ok, i'm ready (to attack ogres)" and unholy says "ok go now"

-coordination to attack shockers team

5. "we will attack tauren base"

-thus allowing unholys team to go straight for tai rocks after instead of tauren. coordination

6. "tauren is basically dead, we will clean up ogres" and unholy says "ogres is dead", "oh niceee"

-super coordination.

7. "5v3, get it right noob"

-shocker had said it was 9v3 which it was with the information giving adn then tired admits to cooperating with unholys team.

8. "we never said we coulndnt 'talk'. "

-admitted to "talking" unlike unholy but played on technicalities




By unholy

1. "everyone target apollos team" and in response tired said "agreed"

- happened right after horsefields. Our team was targetted after taht and eventually lost.

2. "you (tireds team) hit ogres, we'll (unholys team) hit tauren"

-coordination to attack shockers team

3. "you ready tired?"

-coordination to attack shockers team

4. "GO TIRED GO!, ogres" and tired says "theyre coming back up to ogres, i got raped but actually i killed all the tauren"

-coordination

5. "we never said anything to eachother"

-refuting shockers claim that they helped eachother



note: if you dont want to read the dialogue, just watch the replay it has everything. you can stop after 38:44. Fast forward and u cans till catch all the "talking"





ok so snow and king, is this ok or should we set some rules not allowing teams to do what had happened this game?

if it were up to me, id say keep your mouth shut about other teams. Don't share any information with other teams.

Attached Files

Legit win...w3g (942.7 KB, 15 views)

Lohengrin

There should be a line in sharing information. Developments in the first draft match crossed it by coordinating attacks, beckoning each other to attack Team One at the same time, on different fronts.

However, I don't see the logic behind ruling out sharing information altogether. If a defending team blurs out that they are being attacked then of course, the intention is to lure the remaining team to destroy the attacking forces from the back, thereby providing the defending team with a sufficient distraction within which they can organize troops and hope their bases remain standing. This is what happened with horsefields.

Also, when it comes to disclosing a team's units and heros; therein lies a tactic in that as well which is making sure that the other team realizes that the mentioned team is a threat thats needs to be dealt with immediately. If the disclosure causes a combined attack then tough luck. But as I said, people in the first draft match explicitly agreed upon temporarily teaming up against Team One and that is where the line was crossed.

To use your application of military strategy, "base laming" is the equivalent of bomb raids or blitzkrieg, and "sharing information", my dear sirs, is the equivalent of intentionally leaking intelligence.

Myth)I(Apollo

ok so in war cooperation is also ok

the capitalists in ww2 allied with teh soviet union to defeat germany. does that make it ok to cooperate with other teams in ba?

LordSnow

Very well put, Lohen, and summed up much the same as a discussion Apollo and I had. This and a couple of other things will be addressed. We got a good system here, that needs tweaking. This whole season is going to be about what adjusting into what works, and what not to do.

shocker

well i there was allso one like -lets team up on the rigged/stacked team- idk who said it but i rember it.

Myth)I(Furies

If I was still in the game, my team wouldn't have participated in this bull****. I expect this kind've crap from morph, but from you tired? Jesus christ, maybe I should've picked my team better. Oh wait...everyone else did it too, so never mind? I don't want to participate in the draft if this is the kind of **** that goes on. Lohen is right, there needs to be a line drawn, and it needs to be drawn before the next god damn match. I think the match needs to be discredited entirely, not just because of this behavior, but also because my team only had two members. I disconnected within the first 5 minutes of the game I believe? Thanks for the rm guys, really. When tesa demanded rm for tired in a previous cm, they got it. Where were my rm's? Where was mine this time? Or how about we go back to normal cm's like everyone wants...now that's a novel idea. Oh, and one last thing. I think I've narrowed down the reason I've been disconnecting, sorry about bothering everyone about the all caps 'Hax' attempts made on me, I was just really mad, as you can imagine. I'll be fixing that hopefully before the next match, if there is one.
I also agree with Lohen with the disclosure of information. In theory, it's a legitimate strategy. But...as I may have said above, the open teaming against team one...that needs to be ruled out. I think we need to convene on what kind of rules we need in place now that we know what happened first match. And in a private channel, not filled with spam about random crap, and with people who actually care about this.

King_Leopold

I see no problem with spreading information and saying things like "oh, they are attacking me" or "whatever base is being attacked" or even sayin what units somene has.

Actually coordinating to attack is a bit of a different issue.

I think there's two options available
1. Ban all talking with other teams, that is not purely about logistical issues, like game settings.
2. Allow anything to be said. If this is the case, then eveyrone should be aware of it and do the same thing to everyone else in terms of spreading information

Go to this link, now. [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

LordSnow

Furies, way to whine like a girl.

Your lack of experience shows. This draft is a GREAT idea, and you'd be about the only one against it anymore.

As far as no remake? Did anyone ask for it? No one did. Thats always been the case when we remade.. someone asked for it. Quit disconnecting. Thats your stupid fault.

If you think anything changes in a CLAN match, youre out of your mind. But you wouldnt know about that either.

You know why I made you a Captain Furies? Because I knew if I shut you up doing so, you would dig your own hole. You would have no excuses for everything sucking, besides your own ineptitude. And you know what, you are doing nothing but proving me right. Picking players who shouldn't be picked until the end of the draft. Whining over the stupid ****. Disconnecting. Its all predictable.

tiredofexcuses2

lol, i attacked unholys team immidentially after they attacked you guys.... It was a blatant lie and it was a 3v3 don't cry about this information leak, it happens ALL the time.

OberynTheViper

i like how i was the cause for the majority of info leakage heh i shud be charging gold for my knowledge

"A Martell sun, but ten years too young, Tyrion thought as he reined up, too fit as well, and far too fierce. "

"Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken"

Myth)I(Apollo

Lol technically cupid sparked it but yeah. Anyways tired I saw the replay and u did attack afterwards but that doestn change the fact taht you followed the coordination of attacking ogremount (or trying to) and having your team attack tauren while unholy attacked ogremount.

and furies if you dont like getting bashed on then why dont u read the note before the dialogue. It says that this post has no intentions of discrediting a win

shocker

well it all so dont mater if win counts seeing how he wont paly in draft any mroe so we need a 4th redraft...

Lohengrin

I don't like equating leaking intelligence with cooperation. I mean, by definition, I suppose it technically is cooperation but the kind a master has with his one-stringed puppet. One-stringed because if the lure proves to be successful, the puppet won't remain a puppet for long. After failing to destroy Tai Rocks, horsefields bit the dust due to Tired's team feeling a bit opportunistic.

The manipulation and deception that goes along with sharing information is just too cutthroat for it to be discarded.

Although the intentions may be the same, there is a difference between explicitly coordinating with the other team and attempting to carry out a task that will, in the end, be most beneficial to the team doing the information sharing. No doubt some just do it out of bitterness, when they themselves no longer have a chance of winning, and not out of any aspect of strategy but ruling it out would ruin it for those that do, or atleast try to.

Cooperation has such a positive connotation clinging to it that does not apply considering only your best interests are being fulfilled.

The difference between blatant cooperation/coordination and leaking intelligence that I'm trying to establish is something like this:

Instead of saying something like: "We'll hit Taurenia, you take Ogremount."

The differentiated version would go something like: "(All chat, talking to his team) Kill Taurenia; Taurens, Ogres, Masters, and now Cents is bull****."

The other team[s] would now know the type of units in use and at what front most of their units would be defending. There is no guarantee that the other team[s] will do anything, there is even a chance they might take this opportunity to destroy the team that shared the information and is going to be busy attacking. It does not have the reassurance of, "You take Ogremount, We'll hit Taurenia", following an "I agree" by the other team. So, it is essentially a risk that, at times, may prove to be beneficial and at others it may backhand you across the face. It all depends on the choices of the other teams, which shouldn't be influenced by some plight to coordinate attacks but only by subtle pieces of information whose intention is hidden and not explicit.